So I guess if Jesus healed on the Sabbath and his buddies broke off a few heads of wheat to munch on, it's OK if I post a comment today, right? Anyhow, nothing really grabbed me today, other than the direct communication from God and the fact that God "appeared" to Jacob again, which, in my mind anyway, kind of presents a little more evidence that God has a physical body. Also in Genesis 35:13 where it states that "God went up from him." Kind of seems like a funny exit. Why didn't it just say God departed? Did he shoot strait up? To where? Hhhmmm. Then Jacob piles up some rocks again, kind of like last time. Not sure what that's about.

In the NT I find it odd that the Pharisees would actually want to kill Jesus for healing on the Sabbath. That seems a little drastic to me. Is something else going on there?

...rich

Rich, what would that mean for you if God did have a physical body?

Hi Candi...

A short while ago, I began to wonder about the deception. It's actually a huge wondering but I wont bore you with all the details. The bottom line I wondered if I might be deceived with regard to my current beliefs and if so, to what degree. It occurred to me that no person in the entire world would willingly chose to go to hell. Yet, my current understanding is there will be people there. The only way I can fathom that anyone will end up in hell, is because they were deceived, and so far I feel this is consistent with scripture. And I think it's fair to say that we all feel that it's always the other person who is deceived, not us. Yet, the bible is full of warnings to Christs followers to “be not deceived.” This is obviously very serious stuff. I mean the poor souls in hell face eternal ruin, to be cast out forever with no recourse, no mercy, no clemency. I want to make sure I, nor any of my family and friends are among them. I guess I really do not want to see anyone in hell. I've been taught from a young age that God was spirit without a body. Yet when I study the OT on my own, I find what I feel is pretty decent evidence that God in fact does have a body. This leads me to believe that what I've been taught, may not be correct, and this is just one thing out of many. There's actually a bunch of things that don't ad up. Jim Huddart (who I like and respect) thinks I over analyze a lot of stuff, and he's probably right, but I can't help it. I mean when some of this stuff doesn't make sense, it's just not in my nature to walk away from it. I want to find truth, regardless where it takes me, even if I have to abandon previously conceived beliefs. If what we believe and who we believe in determines eternity for us... well, it's really pretty scary for me sometimes. I just want to make sure I believe what is true and I'm not one of th deceived. Make sense?

...rich

I believe God can have any form He chooses. If it would better serve His purpose to communicate with me as a traveling stranger, a large black woman (as in The Shack), a booming invisible voice coming from a burning bush or a common donkey (that would be just my luck to have Him talk to me like I was just another jackass), then that is what He would do and I hope I would be willing to listen.

As far as them wanting to kill Jesus for breaking the Sabbath; that would be because they were only interested in their own power and prestige. Jesus was making serious waves in the way they had done things and they weren’t able to surrender themselves (whom they thought very, very highly of) to anything or anyone.

By the way, per the Pharisees, it is only a mortal sin to make comments on the Sabbath if you actually pick up your laptop and carry it around or if you hit the keys with more than 3 ounces of pressure! :-)

Deception, in my way of thinking, is something to take very seriously. First, I may be wrong, but I believe the bible is the inspired word of God. That requires faith. Without that faith, I am open to all kinds of confusing and probably false beliefs. I think God has left us with enough room to have slightly differing views on some things, but in the big picture there is only one way. The entire OT gives us the perfect laws of God (10 commandments) then shows the futility of trying to keep the law perfectly on our own. Death is the result of sin and sacrifice is the only atonement for transgressions. It also points to a Messiah that will rescue us from inevitable destruction. Descriptions throughout the OT clearly describe the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus centuries before He was even born. The NT fulfills those prophesies and shows us even more about the true character of God. It shows how we need to live, but it also makes it clear we can’t do it without accepting Jesus as the Son of God and letting the Holy Spirit live within us. We are not perfect on our own, but through Christ alone! That’s it. I think deception is changing what the bible says and/or altering any of those basic beliefs to fit another more comfortable view. I’m sure Muslims believe they are right as well as Buddhists and Hindus and many others, but I have faith that I am not now nor will I be decieved if I cling tightly to these things that have been given to us by God Himself. Now if I have been decieved, then at least my life here has been much richer and more joyful because of those beliefs and hopes. I don’t think a man in constant fear of what Allah will do to him if he doesn’t live up to the law or an angry terrorist or suicide bomber or a woman not allowed to show her face in public for fear of being imprisoned could say the same. At least that’s how I see it.

Rich, it's true that I think you SOMETIMES over analyze things, but those are usually things that there is no specific answer to and aren't going to influence your core values (which I happen to think are pretty solid) one way or the other anyway. However, I want to make it very clear that I think you have helped me to re-think and get more clarity about many things I have just taken for granted previously. I think it is imperative to keep an open mind as long as it is always preceded by earnest prayer for God's leading as I know you do.

Having said all that, I should let everyone know that you have also taken me down some dark, lonely, often scary and nearly always very weird roads that have eventually led me nowhere. Still, they are usually fun rides because you have such an interesting mind! (I tried to come up with a better description of your mind, but nothing seems to really fit) :-)

Peace and blessings!

Wow. That sounds like kind of a scary place to be. Though, searching for truth is always good. I don't usually trust people who have ALL the answers. =)
I guess my relationship with God is more ethereal (my favorite definition is: "not of this world")... mostly heart and not a lot of mind involved. There is good and bad to that... the good being that it is simpler for me in the worry department. I know God personally and trust that all the details will be worked out eventually. The bad on the other hand is that I often feel ignorant when entering a space- such as this study- where people are approaching God with a lot of "mind" involved. Also, I always worried that I would not be a very good witness for God if I didn't know the ins and outs of all the little doctrinal details that people who were lost would be quizzing me on. I have to admit there is a lot in the Bible that at first and second and third and so on glance really doesn't seem to make sense. And, I don't have the time or devotion to give to sort it all out. But, I think being at Bridge City has reinforced my belief that drawing people to Christ will happen by being in relationship with them and not by winning them over with facts. That gives me a lot of peace. It sounds to me like you are already a pretty strong believer in Christ and the things of the God. All the other "stuff" is interpreted differently by so many people that I really just have to get on my knees and take it to God. I trust His leading much more than any devotional I could read or pastor I could quiz. I don't think that if you are spending time in prayer asking for God's clarity that He will let the devil answer for Him. Just my thoughts. By the way, it's pretty cool to have someone on here who shares so openly about their ponderings.

I was humored to read about one of Esau's wives who was named "Oholibamah" Sound that one out and it appears to sound like "O Holy Bama" like Obama with at twist... Hahaha - sorry but I couldn't help but laugh.

Not sure if it's just my computer but when I clicked on today's reading it had everything from chapter 25 all the way through to where we were supposed to read -- I don't know it there is an error or my system is off?

Rich, Candi and Jim -- thanks for your interesting posts today... Rich I do understand your concern to not want to be deceived -- for it is a Biblical truth that many are deceived, but what does that mean? You spoke of people who are in Hell, and that they were deceived. I can't help but ask, if we believe God to be just and fair, if those who have chosen against God were not given enough information -- if only through the Holy Spirit -- to make an informed decision for themselves? If God seeks us out as veraciously as the Bible indicates -- then would it not be our repeated denial to allow God's Spirit to open our hearts to Him that would eventually drive God to accept our decision to not serve Him? Freedom of choice. From the stories I read in the Bible, and the characters who's lives are portrayed with such details of sinful acts, it seems to me that if we are choosing to be God's children -- sinful that we are -- and we accept Christ's sacrifice for us -- God's Spirit will lead us away from deception and into His Light.

Hey Rich!
Great autheticity in your thoughts! Thanks for that. It's highly refreshing.
I am with Jim on the whole God in a body thing. I believe He is higher than our ways and can do whatever He wants. Seems like He showed up like a shiny guy to Abraham and
between Him being in a bush, a pillar of fire, pillar of smoke and lit up like an inferno in the firey furnace, I think He can pretty much take bodily form or not. AND the fact that we are created in His "image" has alot of room for interpretation! You are in good company my friend, we all have questions and so many seem to go unanswered. I believe God is delighted with your curiosity as well as your heart. If you are desiring to know Him and understand, I don't think He ever tires of that. It is probably pretty cool to His heart to have kids that what to know Him more. I know when my own offspring ask me questions, it's delightful. Keep it up!

Blessings all! Crazy weekend and not really tracking as well as I had hoped this year with all of the reading. Doing mostly OT and here and there with the rest.

Thanks for the heads up. I fixed the links.

Hey all - I really appreciate seeing this little community interacting, seeking truth and encouraging each other. It's a very cool thing.

Rich - Your heart to know God and understand Him clearly is really an inspiring thing to me. In my study of scripture I've come to this conclusion - there will be no one who misses out on heaven and eternity with God by way of a loop-hole or misunderstanding. It is God's desire that all people be saved. Those who aren't saved don't miss out because they accidentally believed a doctrine wrong, or because they forgot to confess one long forgotten sin. Scripture does say that there are people who will be deceived and people who will miss out on eternity with God. Now, you say that no one in their right mind would choose hell. You're right. But there are people who in their right mind will (and do) choose to be god themselves, rather than submitting to God's way.

This is what I see in the first two chapters of Romans. People don't want to follow God's way. Instead they choose their way. God allows them to make that choice and suffer the consequences. Paul calls that God's wrath. In the long run - when it comes to eternity - it will be the same. The people who miss out on eternity with God are people who can't be in God's presence because the idea of not being in charge is so deeply repugnant to them. I can go more deeply into the scriptural basis of this another time, if you like. If our hearts are oriented Godward and we are open to the Holy Spirit, Jesus promised that we would be led into all truth. I think that's what's happening here!